Any recommendations internal speaker wire?

[BillWojo]

Jeff, you still haven't backed up your claim, do me a favor and take this over to DIYaudio and try and sell it there. Oh, that's right, you got thrown off of that board for this nonsense.
Your explanations don't explain a thing, they are just more outlandish claims.
Skew problems because of parallel resistors? Go ahead and try that over at the EEVBlog forum. Let's see how far you get there.

BillWojo

[bowtie427ss]

One of the things that makes me quite passionate about drag racing is that it is mathematically pure in fairly simple terms. Reality is measured precisely by the clock, and low ET rules, no excuses, no horseshit, no influence by the subjective artistry of individual interpretation. What used to work, still works and will always work, bound by fundamentals. Audio is not that much different.

[BillWojo]

Thank you bowtie, as someone who hangs out at a race shop I know exactly what your saying. A nice improvement on the flow bench can be calculated to real horse power gains and that can be calculated to the expected change in a car or motorcycles ET. It's pure math and physics.
No where have I seen the amount of BS fly as in audio. I worry about the new members that haven't been around long enough to separate fact from fiction. Is the beginning of there learning curve built on a solid foundation or is it built on sand?
This forum has been going over the top lately and a lot of mis-information is being spread as the Gospel truth. I'm pretty disgusted with it all. The one place on the internet that is all Altec and it's being destroyed by a virus.

BillWojo

[LowOhms]

There is two things wrong here with these series of posts, very wrong ...........


(1) All THREE of you fellas, Wojo, mah, and Bowtie, are residing in a bubble....all three have NEVER ever heard the type of execution, and ALTEC system I speak of. SO, you three posters have ZERO actual direct experience to judge these results I speak of.

(2) The subjects I discuss, ( wire, paralleled resistors ) are intelligently employed, and get consistent recognition, since 2005, by reviewers who attend RMAF shows. Listeners occasionally suggest they are hearing "The Best Sound at the SHOW " among several hundreds of audio exhibitors.. Certain years are better than others, BTW, due to a lack of set up time.

I have pointed out the RMAF reviews for folks to read. S. Harrell ( Six Moons, 2005 ) and H. Reichert ( Stereophile Magazine, 2016 ) are but two great examples that come to mind, off the top of my head. URLs were given by me, earlier in this thread, on Page 6, Posts 51 and 60.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"The proof of the pudding, is IN the eating ",

or,

to put in Bowtie language, a drag racer : Its

" where the rubber meets the road".

I rest-my-case with these above consistent, published, multiple public-domain proofs, spanning over a decade in time.



Discovering the truth is always interesting to me.

Some can't handle it.

Many are destined, never to find it !!

Some eventually find it, " in the twinkle of an eye."


Jeff Medwin

[Elitopus1]

I have always thought of Altec users as down to earth. As someone has told me, Altec is the working man's WE.
Usually the "magic" talk comes from the very high end audio users. People that spend 100k or more on a system. They can afford 10k speaker wire etc, and say they can hear the minute differences. To me they are just trying to justify the expense.

Dont get me wrong, I don't think its all snake oil. I think using silver coated copper can net a very very very very very small gain. But to say something like that drastically improves the system, is not the case for me. I know my ears are not that good. And I would say most of our ears are pretty "normal". Especially considering our other hobbies (I also have a SBC and run open headers).

I think when you hang out with all the high end audio guys you start to talk about, and believe in all this "magic".
I don't. And I would say most of us here don't. We are down to earth Altec users who are doing what sounds good to us.
There is no one good system that sounds good to everyone. They are all personalized to our own tastes.

[bowtie427ss]

I promised myself i would only offer constructive input, and i'm going to keep my promise.

This is probably a good point to remember what the primary purpose of the forum is about.

I'm not trying to get on the soap box here, i think everyone in this thread offers worthwhile sentiments, and Jeff brings a long needed venture into the truly high end capabilities of some of the Altec product. That said, i would urge you, Jeff, to try to understand that the true high end level of audio resolution is simply not practical or the primary interest for every Altec enthusiast. Some folks will get there, if they're not driven off the path somewhere along the way. They should be allowed to find their way naturally, and not have the "high end" imposed on them like some kind of edict.

Every enthusiast with enough interest to join the forum and participate,no matter their level of knowledge and experience, whether it be to ask a question, share helpful information, or offer high end tweaks deserves a certain degree of respect.

The contents of this forum are a reflection of all of us. I've tried to install a few tweaks on my own posting habits. I hope maybe a couple others will scratch a similar itch.

[LowOhms]

Hi bowtie,

Nice post. I THINK I understand where you are coming from.

"They should be allowed to find their way naturally, and not have the "high end" imposed on them like some kind of edict."

I am not imposing my will on others, I am pointing out what " I " find works out good on ALTEC. People do not have to follow this, or even read my posts.

It appears, already one person has actually TRIED these written wiring suggestions, and seems to be pleased with his results. That would be Ron SSS, in Post number 37, Page 4, of this thread.

There should be room on this Forum, for people to discuss ALTEC, not just in a middle-of-the-road way - where most reside, but also at higher levels, or lower levels, realizing different people have differing expectations of what makes them happy in this hobby.


No need, or purpose served, mah and Wojo, to attack the Messenger !! As an example, Elitopus1 and I disagree on many things, but we treat each other with respect, understanding of the other person, and we avoid confrontation. We belittle ourselves, when we belittle other people. Forum readers can discern this.


Jeff Medwin

[BillWojo]

Come on Jeff, you made a pretty outlandish statement about paralleling resistors and you have not given us one bit of evidence to prove it. Lot's of bluster about some audio shows and such but something as revolutionary as "skewing" in paralleled resistors should be easily measured.
I have at my disposal a HP 3456A Digital Voltmeter that can measure down to 100 micro-ohms and up to 1 gigaohm. Please show me the scientific research supporting "skewing" so I can try and measure it myself.
A quick search has yielded that the long held mathematical model of resistors in parallel has held up quite nicely even after all these years. Seems that only you are trying to refute the mathematical model and only because "you" can hear the difference.
Jeff, please look up Psychoacoustics. I truly believe that it will answer most of the reasons you hear improvements after doing a lot of your "tweaks". Key word is a "lot", as you have brought up some interesting things in the past. Things like room treatments and such. Those do have scientific credence and can be measured.
So again, I'm waiting on the evidence of "skewing".

BillWojo

[LowOhms]

Come on Jeff, you made a pretty outlandish statement about paralleling resistors and you have not given us one bit of evidence to prove it. Lot's of bluster about some audio shows and such but something as revolutionary as "skewing" in paralleled resistors should be easily measured.
I have at my disposal a HP 3456A Digital Voltmeter that can measure down to 100 micro-ohms and up to 1 gigaohm. Please show me the scientific research supporting "skewing" so I can try and measure it myself.
A quick search has yielded that the long held mathematical model of resistors in parallel has held up quite nicely even after all these years. Seems that only you are trying to refute the mathematical model and only because "you" can hear the difference.
Jeff, please look up Psychoacoustics. I truly believe that it will answer most of the reasons you hear improvements after doing a lot of your "tweaks". Key word is a "lot", as you have brought up some interesting things in the past. Things like room treatments and such. Those do have scientific credence and can be measured.
So again, I'm waiting on the evidence of "skewing".

BillWojo

Hi Bill,

THERE IS NO PROOF i KNOW OF, OTHER THAN DOING THE WORK, AND BUILDING A GOOD CIRCUIT BOTH WAYS, AND LISTENING TO THE RESULTS. .

Its logic. Its just like you can not parallel two triodes, and have them play as pure as ONE triode.

The Rs HAVE to match within one tenth of an ohm, or better, or you will get different signals through each R, and when combined, and it becomes a simple SKEWED signal .

Common sense should enable a person to understand this. If you don't " accept " what I report as being valid, for whatever reason, that is perfectly OK with me, but your entire stance IS out of the realm of common sense.

One possibility is to experiment with the plate resistor of the first 12AX7 stage in your McIntosh tube amp, and YOU decide. I'd order MK-3 Roederteies from Percy, very reasonable, and use your super meter, to match a couple pairs out of two dozen. Let us know how you do !!

Have Fun. Regards,

Jeff Medwin

[mah]

Jeff, Repeated nonsense, ad nauseam. No valid explanation.

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it enough"! Albert Einstein.